Once again, deti hits the nail on the head. The culture of female entitlement indoctrinates young women to think that they are entitled to attention, investment, and time from men without any reciprocation on their part. They are entitled to it simply because they are female, and therefore perfect.

Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship.
Oscar Wilde

that reminds me, though, what if she has cute friends that she introduces you to?

background: i remember on lovedrop’s CD he talks about just “going with the flow”, and meeting people, and being open to new social groups, etc.

how if you meet a girl, and she doesn’t click with you, how it is stupid to reject her, and how instead maybe you hang out with her, and you click with her roommate — stuff like that.

i know we are talking about sort of different situations, this one from pb’s situation, but it just occurred to me.

basically, the question is this, isn’t it good to have female friends?

as long as there are boundaries, of course.

Agreed. Any woman who puts you in the friend zone is going to now create a friend zone for all of her friends to put you in as well. They start passing you around as an emotional tampon that gets used by each woman in turn.

You’ll suddenly have no time. You’ll be ‘getting closer’ to women as they let you think you see the real them, when really you just see their hamsters spinning as it tells you why they go to those Alpha’s, ruin their jobs, their careers, how they’re a special snowflake and the world just needs to learn it so they can have a wonderful life of unicorns and rainbows.

The FIRST THING a man should do when taking the red pill is cut off any women he’s been put in the friend zone with. Simply. Do. Not. Talk. With. Them. It will lead to more backsliding than getting shot down in approaches, early game, mid game, dealing with job situations, everything. They’ll try and force the reality you’re trying to shake off on you, and they’ll win because you’re still comfortable with it and you don’t want to hurt the feelings of women you’ve spent so much time with and ‘gotten to know so well.’

I had a post on it awhile ago, where I called it Friends With Her Benefits. It’s the female-centric equivalent of FWB situations where she gets everything she wants and you get nothing you want.

so i want to ask about a specific example. this wasn’t the example i was originally thinking of, but it might be an even better example.

so a while back, i did a photo shoot with this pretty girl. she then later texted me to hang out. i went to hang out, and she blew me off. i thought, either she (1) “changed her mind” because i screwed up somehow, or (2) she was trying to manipulate me somehow, for something.

a couple of months later, she emails me for help with a letter of recommendation.

initially i was going to help her, cause that is just my nature, to help people, but then i remembered how i drove to her fucking house, only to get rejected, and thought, screw that.

i was still debating it — feeling guilty, etc — when i read what deti wrote, how i should never help a girl who blew me off.

so i am just going to ignore her email, correct?

thanks guys

By blew you off do you mean she had you drive out there just to turn around and drive back? Or that you drove out there, hung out, but she blew off your sexual advances?

Personally, if she had you drive out there to turn around I’d say that you should just send a short response that you either don’t know her well enough to write a good letter of rec or that you don’t write letters of rec for people that blow you off irresponsibly. Or for both situations you could just ignore the email because she’s not worth the time or energy.

Rivelino – ask her when she needs it. Then swear on the Holy Bible that you will have that letter in her hands immediately in a few short months.

Or just write something like,”This lady is awesome, especially considering her diminished mental capacity. I’d definitely hire her if she hasn’t gotten worse.”

You could also ask to trade her a letter for some homemade cookies. I stole that from Athol and have been using it for a year or so. It’s been a lot of fun, and keeps you from being taken for granted. I’m ruthless with it, too – no cookies? No help.

Riv, I just read your email. Nice body. But let’s see

1) she aks you to hang out then blow you off
2) she returns months later asking for favors

Shes REALLY above of you right? her email is cold/thirdperson and says her lawyer selected you. Its not even coming from a personal need – direct petition.

Either ignore her or blow her off.

Ah, I can’t recommend you. I need to keep my name clean.

very well said krauser, thanks for your input. this thread has become really good, it’s an excellent topic which i actually hadn’t read much about before.

truthfully, even two years later, i think i am still in that transitionary period. kinda embarrassing to admit, but better to admit it than to continue fucking up in the same way.

Rivelino, I’ve been messing around with this stuff for twice as long as you have – and I still think of myself as transitional.

I’m just moving toward the right things now.

thanks guy

I’m actually going to disagree with the crowd here Rivelino. I don’t agree with hanging around with a girl who put you in the friendzone and still keeps you around for narcissistic supply and to make you her emotional tampon, especially if you’re just doing so to eventually get in her pants. BUT if you want to keep her around so you can hook up with her friends, I say why not? But if you do it, be aggressive. Hit on her friends hard, really put her to the test as far as recommending you and hooking you up. If she’s dragging her feet, making excuses, stalling, sabotaging and cockblocking, then dump her as a friend. Give her like two weeks to prove herself. And don’t invest any time in giving her narcissistic supply or listening to her bs sob stories in the meantime. Keep it as low investment a friendship as possible until she proves her value to you.

[...] note.. YOHAMI recently put a post up very similar to what i wrote where he quotes the great DETI. Check it out here! Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like [...]

[...] created a post of the above advice titled Deti Wisdom and added his take on it. Rate this:Share this:Like this:LikeBe the first to like this. This [...]

@ricky raw

“I don’t agree with hanging around with a girl who put you in the friendzone and still keeps you around for narcissistic supply and to make you her emotional tampon, especially if you’re just doing so to eventually get in her pants. BUT if you want to keep her around so you can hook up with her friends, I say why not? But if you do it, be aggressive. Hit on her friends hard, really put her to the test as far as recommending you and hooking you up. If she’s dragging her feet, making excuses, stalling, sabotaging and cockblocking, then dump her as a friend. Give her like two weeks to prove herself. And don’t invest any time in giving her narcissistic supply or listening to her bs sob stories in the meantime. Keep it as low investment a friendship as possible until she proves her value to you.”

“I just went through the rest of the comments after posting mine and just saw Krauser’s. I totally agree with him. You don’t want to get stuck into a black-or-white, all-or-nothing view of women. I’d put her on a probationary period to see if she wants a real friendship or she wants asexual narcissistic supply aka emotional tampon. And the moment you feel she’s trying to sabotage your chances with other girls while still wanting to be just friends because she wants to monopolize you as a source of asexual narcissistic supply, ax her for sure.”

well said, T, thanks man.

imagine if every young man in america could read just this one post, with commentary and discussion from yohami, deti, krauser, and ricky raw.

AWESOME.

A rational guide to exit LJBF. Enter the SMV ladder.

Women’s SMV = sexual gatekeeper (the V slot) through beauty, and some element of femininity
Women’s predisposition to SMV = 100%. they’re born with it.
Women’s maintenance of SMV = don’t become a fat fock, don’t walk, talk, chew, or screw like a man. that’s it.
Women’s objective of SMV = Retain sexual attention from men by acquiring their SMV resources (time/money/charm/entertainment/emotional commitment) while expending as little of her SMV resource (sex)

Men’s SMV = confidence, charm, wit, humor, status, assertiveness, wealth, physique (though this can be overcome rather easily with any of the aforementioned traits)
Men’s predisposition to SMV = 10-20%. the majority of men are not genetically gifted or born into environments that are naturally conducive to optimizing these traits. Natural selection is a bitch. Damn you Darwin.
Men’s maintenance of SMV = work your ass off in your career, gym, relationships, social situations, through sweat, blood, experimentation, humiliation, desensitization, rejection, and be successful at it while going against the social grain of postmodern feminism. Also, time, money, and entertainment.

The SMV hierarchy:
Natural alpha – maximize acquisition female SMV resource (sex), minimize outputs of male SMV resources (time, money, attention)
Dudley douchebag – maximize female SMV by promising but not delivering male SMV
Greater beta – (subconsciously) negotiate female SMV (sex) in exchange for male SMV (charm, money, entertainment)
Lesser beta -attempt to acquire female SMV in exchange for opulent display of male SMV (showy, braggish, etc)
LJBF – dead-end attempt to acquire female SMV in exchange for endless, unrestrained access to all male SMV. This is the equivalent of female rape. As a woman’s evolutionary value is derived by her sexual capability, a man’s evolutionary value is derived by his provisional ability – do not let her pork you by taking all your resources and convincing you that you have a chance with her. That is the same as a guy porking a prostitute, not paying for her negotiated services, and then falsely promising her that he will commit to here monogamously and take care of the soon-to-be bastard child.

As you can see, it is better to be donald douchebag or a hairy braggadacio than to be LJBF’d. It is completely fine to be friends with a girl – just don’t singularly operate with the notion that you want to bone her. have options, make them known, and exercise some DHV to demonstrate value. If she doesn’t respond, at worst case, use her for practice to sharpen your social & interpersonal skills WITHOUT expending your male SMV resources. Opportunity cost = see SMV hierarchy.

As women’s instincts predispose her to a natural psychological maturity over the male, her rationalization hamster, her subconscious manipulation feigned with innocence, coated with impenetrable but flawed logic to justify her preference, will naturally maximize her hypergamous instinct by ascertaining the maximal male SMV out of you while minimizing the female SMV out of her.

As discussed, female’s SMV is derived primarily by beauty. Women are encouraged to maximize their SMV (cue any magazine cover on any magazine stand anywhere in this universe, less extremist populace), and MAXIMIZE acquisition of male SMV (open any magazine section, advice column, article, anywhere in this universe).

Men are also encouraged to maximize their external SMV (physique, wealth), but FEMINIZED (emasculated, neutralized) towards development of the more life-essential male SMV (charm, wit, humor, social skill = overall GAME, thank you darwinian descendant creators of the manosphere) and DISCOURAGED from acquisition of female SMV publicly due to social taboo. Of course, the antithesis of these dynamics exist in informal social circles (locker room notch count pissing contests, etc), but in the context of formal western civilization, the facts are the facts. Lets call the piggy a piggy.

Women are encouraged to level the playing field by acquiring male SMV resources on their own (career, money, etc), but they cannot artificially mimic their evolutionary needs of male provision (leadership, comfort, security, time, attention, companionship), just like men cannot sprout V slots. Thus, understand the general predisposition to SUBCONSCIOUSLY advance female imperative through hypergamous instinct. Better to be castrated as a eunuch omega with some resource than to be LJBF’d by voluntarily handing over hard-earned resource.

so right on. she’s not really friends with you if she’s willing to treat you so disrespectfully as to say LJBF. all women and all people know what that means- it’s an insult especially when phrased as such. and if you let it go, the day will come when your manhood will be stripped from you when she introduces you as “just a friend” in front of your friends or some d-bag she just met, yet will allow to bone her. at that moment you see she isn’t difficult with everyone, just you. and you realize you’ve been played, though it is too late. you’ve already wasted precious time, even months or years sometimes. if you feel bad cutting her off, do something like what i did with one recently. i planned a simple bday gift for her- i knew she’d be hanging with some dbag on friday night, so i knew she’d blow me off. it happened several times before. so i set her up to blow me off, if that makes sense. i planned it for that night and she did in fact blow me off. the fact that i had a bday present for her in hand exaggerated the mistreatment. made me feel like i was doing the right thing cutting her off. i was then able to throw it in her face as a reason for cutting her off- bc she claims to want friendship but fell short of even that. it sounds masochistic and maybe it is, but if you’re a good person, setting her up to exaggerate her mistreatment of you will help your body move on. you’ll mentally realize and you’ll decide to draw the line. she’s carefully keeping you at bay by not giving you any egregious evidence to get rid of her, and therefore you cannot get your body to act. it’s premeditated. so make it easy for her to cross the line. i considered telling her she was downgraded to “just acquaintances” but later decided a full-blown cutoff would be the best message. i never want her to come back. if you keep women like this in your life, they will destroy your life. even if you end up in a great healthy relationship with someone else later, if you keep them, theyll come back at that time to destroy it. and after they destroy it, theyll LJBF you again. do not allow them to access you. they dont care about you.