25 May 2012, Posted by yohami in conversations,personal,relationships, 15 Comments.
I’m going to do my best to teach my SO about herself.
Ted D’s story continues, from the comments:
* * *
I am indeed working on being more attractive and getting my needs met first and foremost, I am also going to try something else that I hope will improve things greatly.
I’m going to do my best to teach my SO about herself.
I honestly don’t see how this can work if my mate remains completely clueless. Athol’s wife of course is fully on board with his efforts.
[...]
I can’t see this working long term if she remains completely clueless about all this.
* * *
Unless she’s asking you to teach her about herself, this won’t work.
1) If you care about her change more than she does, you become codependent, if you’re not already (chances are you are)
2) By finding the solution on the awareness of other people, by focusing on the external, you transfer your own blame and inadecuate feelings and painful emotions into other people. On the long run, you’ll make everything worse.
3) She may be a kid, but she’s not your kid. Even when we usually refer to women as children, what it really means is that you must strive to become an adult in your relationship.
A) Even if she was your kid and you wanted her to change, “explaining her herself” doesnt do anything. Kids don’t need explanations, they need rules and consistency and an intelligence stronger than their own they can trust. They will be able to process explanations, in case they ever want them, once they are curious about how things WORK. For that, they have to see that stuff WORKS first. They need to experience the rule before they can rationalize the explanation.
B) Women are more emotional than men. You have to handle her with emotional intelligence, not rational intelligence. If she’s in a middle of an emotional turmoil and you attempt the logic-explanation path, she’ll get angrier because you don’t understand her and you’re trying to manipulate her rational mind into changing her emotions, when you should be paying attention to her emotions. And what does paying attention to her emotions mean? not necessarily that you surrender to them. But you have to treat them as real, when they are, and spank her / reprehend her when she’s just being silly.
and
4) You’ve been in a relationship with her for a while. You know this woman. What is exactly what you’re going to explain her about herself that she doesnt know already? and, how well has she taken “explanations” about herself that are not pleasant, codename: criticism?. How does she handle being confronted with rational explanations she doesnt want to hear, or facets of herself that have negative connotations?
And last
5) With stuff like “Athol’s wife supports his efforts” and comparisons to other couples, you’re only saying that your SO doesnt support your efforts, that you’re envy of other couples, you’re bringing jealousy and pityness into your situation. By saying “I don’t know if we cant last, I can’t see this working long term unless she…” you’re setting an ultimatum. You whiny bitch.
You want her to change so you can change and want her to understand and grow sou you can grow, or else. How old are you? You’re supposed to kick her out of your life if she doesnt qualify. You’re not supposed to bring her in and build ties and then ask HER to change. If you’re already in a relationship and you found that you have to change, tell her that YOU are changing, and change. If she wants to stay with you, she’ll follow.
* * *
Dude. When your kids do something improper. Do you sit them them down and explain them the history of mankind and all the context and variables and why what they did upset you so much so they can take in consideration your feelings and their own and all humanity and society and the rules, so they can make their own choice?
Or do you tell them: “Don’t do THAT”, firmly, let them get the message, then let them go?
Guess which kid is going to be happier?
You’re supposed to be the adult. The MAN in the relationship. That means it’s your job to digest reality and expose yourself to all the danger and complexities of the world, deal with it, find solutions for it, digest it, and make it SIMPLE. Make it WORK.
This means you’re not supposed to explain other people in your circuit. You’re not supposed to be a non-playing supportive agent that keeps giving advice and explanations to the person in charge. You’re the one expected to be in charge. You’re supposed to lead. You’re supposed to be only listening to the feedback other people do on YOUR leadership. Not listening so you follow them, but listening so you know how to lead better. This is not a game where you explain and teach but where they ultimately decide what to do.
You’re supposed to tell them what to do, and if needed, how. “Why” only if they ask you directly, but the “why” is not so they agree with you. They should agree with you because you’re a proven decision maker, and because they trust you, and because it’s implicit. Because you’re the adult, and they chose you. And you’re good for them. You make it easier, you make it simple, you make it work.
* * *
So. You found your scapegoat and decided that you’re going to teach her herself.
First examine why, exactly, you need so badly that she realizes who she is and what she’s doing to you. And why you need to verbalize and she to accept your verbalization and to change, to please you, based on your understanding of how the world works instead of her own viewpoints. Why on the face of the uncomfortable, you need HER to change HER mind in order for YOU to have what YOU want.
Why do you need to do all that manipulative process, instead of, say, being the person and acting in the way the end result is for granted, quitting the approval seeking and approval dependance, and the clinginess and neediness – and becoming an adult and lead by example, sans-explanations.
You’re placing her as a stepping stone to your own change.
It won’t work.
* * *
Last note. Instead of teaching her herself, teach her YOU. She’ll learn about herself in the process. At her own pace.
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15 Comments
May 25, 2012 7:48 pm
Fred Woodbridge @@fwoodbridge
FUCKING. BRILLIANT.
May 25, 2012 10:00 pm
black @Twitter Name
This is what most guys need to hear, but don’t really want to. It’s not the easiest route. It’s intimidating. It’s difficult to plan, much less to implement.
Thanks for sharing the wisdom.
May 27, 2012 12:07 pm
Linkage is Good for You: Week of May 27, 2012
[...] Morning, 7AM: I’m on the Subway with a Bottle of Scotch”Yohami – “I’m Going to Do My Best to Teach My SO About Herself.“, “Do You Want to Be Successful with Women, for Real?”John the Other – [...]
May 27, 2012 4:30 pm
Stingray
Well, apparently I should read everything before I make a post. Heh.
Beautiful job.
May 27 2012 23:13 pm
yohami
Thanks Sting. Where's your blog again?
May 28, 2012 10:28 pm
Jennifer
So now women are children and can’t understand logic. Fuck that.
May 28, 2012 10:34 pm
yohami
Jen, you’re acting like a children now: your emotional state is stronger than your ability to express yourself rationally. Can you understand that logic?
May 28, 2012 11:04 pm
Jennifer
If you can’t understand the meaning of my post, I’m surprised. I’m acting pissed at your overdone-yet-simple comparison of women to children, Yohami. It tends to piss people off when you insult their intelligence and then act as though they’re irrational for being insulted.
May 28, 2012 11:07 pm
yohami
I understand your comment, and I can understand you getting pissed. However “I am pissed” is not an argument. It’s an emotional state. If you think or have any opinion on the subject, or why what Im saying is wrong, let’s hear it.
May 28, 2012 11:19 pm
Jennifer
I’m not interested in arguing, Yohami, against the idea that women are children or like children, because then I’d become involved too long in something I’ve mainly purposed to leave behind. Suffice it to say this: if women are that much like children, you have little hope of forming a real life-long bond with them or relying on them for anything, inspite of your more inspiring words elsewhere about relationships. There’s a real and strange truth to the argument that “game” as we see it online is in fact an enabling tact; it is for women, but also for men. In its most basic and general forms, it’s a simple and realistic form of interaction, but when people dive so far into it that they split it into several pieces of quasi-philosophy, that self-contradicts almost as often as it contradicts others’ terms of it, it becomes a big pretentious mess. Judging from your words elsewhere, Yo, you seem to wish for true partnership between women and men too, real adults, but while your words here about teaching women about themselves are true, many other sentences here are clashing to any hope of adult partnership. I hope you find something better than a woman needing minding like a child. In the meantime, thanks for listening, in any case.
May 28, 2012 11:34 pm
yohami
Women as children: Im slowly realizing it’s not the normal state, but a problem. That a lot of women just didnt grow up, and that a lot of what we see as regular female behavior is actually childhood trauma, BDP disorders, narcissism, or plain immaturity.
“you seem to wish for true partnership between women and men too”
I do. I havent seen any though, not firsthand.
May 29 2012 17:13 pm
Ted D
"I do. I havent seen any though, not firsthand."
And that is why I really cannot take your advice over the advice of men who have and still are successfully married and in LTRs. I'm not in my 20's and I'm not looking for notch counts. I'm looking for something like what Athol has, a marriage with a woman that isn't clueless. She doesn't have to know the history of mankind, but I'd damn well like it if she at least knows why she gets cranky if I'm indecisive, or even why she might get riled up reading 50 Shades of Grey.
I'm not saying I don't respect your opinion, but the comment I copied from you above says it all for me. And, I've seen elsewhere that you question if such a relationship is even possible between a man and a woman. Well my friend, it isn't for you, as long as you doubt it exists. ;-)
And please, can we not bring the raising of children into this debate? I've opened myself up to all kinds of comments on the 'game' blogs, and I opened that can of worms. But seriously, until you have a few kids, don't think you can easily figure out how to be a good parent and make a happy child. I will tell you, when it comes to my children, I do sometimes sit them down and explain exactly why their behavior was bad, and more importantly, I do my best to teach them how to think for themselves, so I don't have to KEEP giving them the history of human kind. My daughter actually responded well to these long discussions about bad behavior. My son on the other hand pretty much responds better to simple commands and quick discipline. Although, as he is getting older (13 now) he is asking questions, and most important about that is: the questions are getting better.
Let me ask you something though? What harm is there in telling a child exactly why they are in trouble, and what you as a parent expect from them in the future? How can you expect a child to NOT misbehave if you are not clear about what you consider to be good behavior? Do you feel it is bad for a child to know too much information about a situation, or not enough? And lastly, what in the world makes you thing a "happy" child is a good one? Or that a "happy" child will make a responsible adult someday?
May 28, 2012 11:50 pm
Jennifer
“Im slowly realizing it’s not the normal state, but a problem. That a lot of women just didnt grow up, and that a lot of what we see as regular female behavior is actually childhood trauma, BDP disorders, narcissism, or plain immaturity”.
EXACTLY. Our modern society has produced many grown up children, both men and women, but the government targets women mainly, and their financial handouts help make already entitled women even worse. Liberalism is a bad, growth-stunting drug. Thanks for discussing this, it’s become quite useful food for thought.
“I havent seen any though, not firsthand.”
That’s very sad. I hope you find something better, elsewhere and for yourself.
May 29, 2012 4:50 am
Emma
Last note is probably the most important one, IMO. Teach her yourself, I like the sound of that. But would it really be bad to introduce her to some of the knowledge at the same time? I mean, it worked with me, I got to know all this stuff, even though I had no interest in it before (although I got to know it while I met my bf, not after). Perhaps telling her might be ok, but not while you’re in an uncertain agitated state of mind… And to begin with, don’t make it about her and how she acts, or she’ll feel stupid and criticized – just talk about things in a general way. If she is not interested and bored by it, it won’t work, and I know from experience that if you pressure someone to read something, they will only want it LESS. So if interest is negligible, maybe Ted would be interested in using some manipulative tricks to lure her in and make her catch some interest? It’s not evil if no one is harmed.
But yeah, before any of that could be done, maybe some time could be taken to digest info and “teach her YOU”
May 29, 2012 5:29 pm
Ted D
“Instead of teaching her herself, teach her YOU. She’ll learn about herself in the process. At her own pace.”
I wanted to add that this is brilliant though. I said I wasn’t at all sure how to start this process, but you just showed me that I already have. Thanks for pointing it out!
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