After a few threads on different blogs (HUS, manboobz), Im starting to grasp the modus operandi that makes it so hard to talk openly with feminists about issues and reach to logical / sane agreements, or even logical / sane disagreements. It seems like if you want to debate like you are a feminist, you have to:
- Selectively ignore arguments.
- Present your arguments clearly and in a sound manner.
- Mis-represent every argument from the opposition.
- Present your statements as absolutes.
- Invalidate opposing statements on the basis they are trying to talk in absolute terms.
- Address only the stuff you oppose to.
- Get offended easily.
- Turn any disagreement into an accusation.
- Repeat your premises often.
- Demand sympathy / understanding for your cause.
- Ridicule / demonize the opposition.
- You are always the recipient of the wrongdoing, NEVER the one wrongdoing.
- If facts get in the way, ignore them.
- You are the role model for everyone else to follow.
- If its good for you, its good. Period.
- If its not good for you, it´s gotta be wrong. Period.
- If they hurt you, they are bad people. If you hurt them, they deserve it.
- Your job is to stand there, resiliently evangelizing, until everyone recognizes / celebrates you. Shame, insult, reframe, ignore, readdress, deviate, repeat if you have to. For as long as you have to. If the opposition opts for stop arguing with you and leave you alone, you have won. If the opposition drops the subject, you have won. If the debate turns ugly to the point it not longer matters, you have won. When the only sound left is the sound of your own voice, you have won.
- If for some reason you lose, if you find yourself cornered, or are proven wrong: escape, and try again tomorrow.
So its a strange cocktail of clear / logical presentation of arguments, plus solid, unmovable premises, selective listening, proactive reframing, thin skin, hard vicious tongue, strawman arguments, aphex fallacies, ad hominem, victim and inquisitor roleplaying. All at once. Nice.
What makes me crazy about this is I really, like, really would like to talk with these people, understand whats going on, address the mistakes, have an intelligent discussion over topics, etc. I would say its similar to talking to very religious people, except religious people have a BOOK and a lot of premises they all agree on. With feminists, its more about the posture than it is about the content.
And the posture is frankly rotten.